CoachCraft with Alf Gracombe
CoachCraft explores the art and impact of coaching youth sports through in-depth conversations with renowned coaches from grassroots to professional levels, revealing how exceptional mentors use athletics to shape character, build confidence, and positively impact young lives.
CoachCraft with Alf Gracombe
Strategies for Better Player Feedback with Temisan Williams and Mike Smith
In this episode of the CoachCraft Podcast, Alf Gracombe engages in a deep conversation with coaches Temisan Williams and Mike Smith about the critical role of player feedback in youth development. They explore how cultural backgrounds influence feedback reception, the importance of individual coaching versus team coaching, and the necessity of specific, actionable feedback. The discussion also touches on the use of technology in coaching, the significance of player agency, and the evolving role of coaches in fostering a positive learning environment for young athletes.
For more information about CoachCraft, visit https://coachcraft.info.
Alf Gracombe
Welcome to the CoachCraft Podcast. I am very excited about today's conversation. I have two returning guests to the show ⁓ for a new format here, at least first time we're trying this out. We're two guests and we're going to do a deep dive on a topic. The topic today is player feedback and how coaches can improve and make more impactful feedback for their players.
So, Temisan Williams, was also on the podcast, close to a year ago at this point, Temisan, welcome back, great to have you.
Temisan Williams
Thank you for having me back. It's always a pleasure ⁓ and to be here with Mike as well. Thanks, Alf.
Alf Gracombe
Yeah, and Mike Smith also previously on the podcast. Mike, great to have you back. Welcome.
Mike Smith
Yeah, yeah, thanks Alf. Pleasure to be here. Looking forward to it.
Alf Gracombe
Great. Well, let's get started. first, start with you, Temisan And love to hear a little bit about just what you're up to and, you know, the Coach Accelerator Masterclass is your brainchild. And I know where you focus your work, but specifically, what have been up to recently?
Temisan Williams
Sure, so I would really describe myself as a ⁓ football coach strategist, career strategist now. So through the Accelerator, helping coaches, not just in the UK, but globally. So we are now in 12 countries. We have coaches who are trying to work within professional academies and the elite game. So we now have over 140 members, ⁓ which is great. We've also got two other professional mentors helping out as well.
One is Simon O'Neill, who's Liverpool Women's Under-21s coach, and Damian Matthew, who previously coached at Glasgow Rangers in the Champions League. So really great to have them on board. And also visits to clubs. So it's been great over the last six weeks to have gone to Premier League clubs in Arsenal, Fulham, AFC Bournemouth, Crystal Palace, and then also other clubs like Watford, Leighton Orient ⁓ and we've got a few others coming up.
It's been great. It's been really good and great to see how coaches have been progressing as well. And lastly, really happy that we managed to get so many coaches onto their UEFA B license. For those who don't know, especially in the UK, the national average acceptance rate is about 11%, but we managed to get 90%. So I'm absolutely stoked by that.
Alf Gracombe
Yeah, I saw you post that recently on LinkedIn, just incredible statistics. So ⁓ congrats on the work you're doing and helping develop coaches into the Academy systems. It's fantastic.
Temisan Williams
Cheers.
Alf Gracombe
all right. And Mike, yeah, welcome back. A little bit about just what you're up to.
Mike Smith
Yeah, well we don't have time for all of that but I'll tell you two things, it's busy days, yeah, new season starts. So yeah, most of the time at the moment is with Coerver Coaching So I'm looking after all the licensees in Europe and so we have some new licensees which is good in a few countries and so getting them going, lot of interest in the brand.
Temisan Williams
Ha ha.
Mike Smith
We have a new relationship with the European Football Clubs, which is the big association, 700 clubs across Europe. We just did our first international webinar with them and that had 30 countries online at the same time, 90 clubs. So was really, really starting to move forward with the coach education side, particularly online. And then Alf, as you know, getting busy with the CoachFives project.
So which we'll talk about later. yeah, yeah, full, full plate at the moment, but lots of interesting stuff. Lots of interesting stuff.
Alf Gracombe
Yeah,
well, both of you guys, you're making me feel insufficient in terms of how I fill my days. You guys both have a lot going on. So thanks for making the time for the conversation today. And yeah, as Mike said, Mike and I are actually doing some work together on developing an app for coaches around player feedback and supporting coaches and delivering improved and more impactful feedback for their players.
And that's our topic today. That's what we're going to do a little bit of a deep dive. Temisan I'm thrilled to have you here. You've done a lot of of the biggest academies in the Premier League, Arsenal, and Fulham.
I know you and I have talked a lot about just some of the players that have come through the Arsenal Academy recently. Miles Lewis Skelly, Ethan Nwaneri and most recently Max Dowman all guys that you knew in their kind of earlier stage of development through the ⁓ Arsenal Academy. So just thrilled to have you here to talk about it, Temisan, we'll start with you. We'd just kind of love to hear you frame up a little bit this topic for us and how we.
think about it at the youth development levels. I know your work has typically been with teenage boys, again, at Arsenal and Fulham most recently, but talk about it if you can, a little bit about just feedback and why it matters to coaches and how you've seen it play out in your work.
Temisan Williams
It's really interesting as a topic because I think firstly, it does need to be talked about more. so, Alf, it's great that you bring this conversation to the forefront. I'm going to start actually with parents. And the reason why is because I believe that parents' interaction with their children also has an impact on
how children receive feedback and how they also prefer feedback as well and how they approach having the conversation. I'll give you a little anecdote here. So at one of the clubs, a coach said to me, oh, this player seems a bit rude. They're not looking at me in the face when I'm talking to them. And I said to the coach, what background is that player from?
He said, oh, he's African. I said, well, it makes sense because if I'm an African background, the parents usually tell you don't look at me when I'm talking to you, but I'm from a Caribbean background. And I said to him, okay, but what about this player? What does he do when he speaks to you? He said, oh, looks at me in my face. said, I know, because from a Caribbean background, we're told to look at someone in their face when they're talking to you, especially someone who's older than you. So I think that part of the feedback, and I know I'm going into...
probably something a little bit more deeper, but I think that part is really critical and I think we do miss that nuance which does have an influence on feedback. But then also as a coach we need to recognise what is our biases towards how we like to receive feedback ourselves and how we then provide that feedback and I think that's a really good starting point.
Alf Gracombe
Yeah, great. I mean, cultural context or just even the individual personality or characteristics of players as a coach, just the need to understand that context and shape feedback and interactions with players topic. Yeah.
Mike Smith
Yeah.
I think it underlines, Temisan
when you say that, that most club coaches see themselves as a team coach. That's the entity as the team and sort of all the players mold into one a little bit. Whereas I think certainly from the younger age groups, all my experience over the years is that there's definitely an "I" in team, particularly the younger players. And ⁓ the coach has got to see the team as
Temisan Williams
Hmm.
Mike Smith
on an individual basis, which is not so easy, because every kid's a bit different, right? Every kid's a bit different. And that's the way you make a connection. You don't connect with the team. You connect with individuals around the team. That's my experience anyway.
Temisan Williams
Yeah.
I love that, Mike, and especially because now more and more you're hearing this within academies and especially from the top level downwards that teams don't go through to the first team. It's individuals. And so you have to know the individual. It's so critical to be able to do that. And also, I think what can be bit challenging when it comes to the feedback element is
Mike Smith
Yeah.
Temisan Williams
You don't usually continue on with that group over the years. you probably most most coaches will just have that group for one year. And if, for example, you have a trialist who comes in after maybe halfway through, you then only get six months worth of getting to know that trialist and, you know, you talk about feedback. Well, they haven't had long for you to then be able to give much feedback and have experience of giving feedback to that to that child. So.
These are other aspects that can make it a bit difficult for coaches. But like you said, there definitely is that eye. There definitely is.
Mike Smith
Yeah.
Alf Gracombe
Yeah, it's interesting. So, Temisan, you sort of started to highlight a little bit of specific dynamic within the Academy system, which is you often have coaches who are with an age group and then the players graduate and progress through the age groups, which might stand in contrast to grassroots soccer, where maybe you've got a parent who is a coach and will
you know, stay with that team or that player and his, their child and his or her peers over the course of many seasons or many years, a very different dynamic, right? Somewhat transactional, you might say in the academy versus maybe a little bit more personalized at the grassroots level. Mike, have you seen that play out at all in the grassroots or?
Mike Smith
Very nice.
Temisan Williams
Hmm.
Mike Smith
Yeah, think that's true.
have, you know, coaches in grassroots tend to have longer to get to know the players. But I think that starts to change a little bit. You know, the turnover of coaches in grassroots tends to be faster now. Here in Spain, where I live, it's often a lot of young coaches are in clubs and it might last two years and they're off somewhere else. So finding a way to...
to keep that picture of a team that then gets passed to another coach is enormously important. And so I think that's a part of, we talk about feedback in the live situation now, but it is journey, right, of players. And the more you know about that journey, the better. But I think at the grassroots, that's becoming more of a challenge, I would say. But...
The main focus of grassroots is not to develop the individual player like Temisan, the professional. That kind of get the one player to the top or the two players to the top. It's much broader, know. Have a great season, you know. That means many things at grassroots. so I think that's another part of getting to know kids is also the fact that kids have different motivations for being there.
I think Temisan basically the pro game, they have more or less the same motivation once they get to the academy.
Temisan Williams
Yeah, you're correct. And so I think it does help to streamline it a little bit. having and I remember my time in grassroots, even though I've spent more time in academies, it was nice. You didn't have the pressure. You know, there is a pressure in academies to try to really help the players to go forward and prepare them for that next stage. But one thing you'd mentioned, Mike, about the handover.
In all the clubs I've been at, I've never seen a handover which specifically says this is how this player likes to receive feedback for all of the players. That's something I've never seen. The mode of giving feedback has always been, OK, well, have it parents even, we have it on video, et cetera, but not how that particular player likes to receive it.
Mike Smith
Yeah.
Yeah.
Alf Gracombe
Yeah, Temisan, mean, speak to that a little bit more because I'm sure as part of that handoff, there is a lot of information and knowledge transfer about the player's technical ability and development on the pitch. But you're saying you're not seeing that knowledge transfer about the player's personality, how he or she might respond or react to feedback.
So there's a little bit of a, you know, I know often like coaches, right? They're oriented around on the pitch. They're training sessions. It's, it's a very kind of technical orientation, but there's a whole other side to this, which is just about coach player communication.
Temisan Williams
Hmm.
Yeah, so ⁓ definitely, of course, technical, tactical. That's really at the forefront, as well as, you know, if there's anything going on in their home life that you need to be aware of. But getting into that nitty gritty of, well, this player, when you mentioned this, this is how they usually respond. And you may have those conversations and passing throughout the season at times, but nothing that's written down.
And so I know you said it earlier, but I think what you're developing is really great because it can help to have that reference point for coaches so that communication can be that much more supported.
Alf Gracombe
let's talk a little bit about player development and both the academy and the grassroots level. We're not talking about professionals yet. I know maybe...
you know, a handful of players are going to make their way into the first teams of a big club like Arsenal or Fulham. So sure, there's a professional orientation there, but we're still talking about kids. We're still talking about, I don't know, let's say, you know, ages 10 to 14. If I'm a coach how do I understand player development, player progression, and then I'll follow up with
that question with then how do we think about how we provide feedback to players as they are progressing. But Mike, let's start with you just in terms of what do we really mean when we're talking about youth player development.
Mike Smith
Yeah, I think was another talk.
Everybody talks about player development. Now, you know, for the professionals, obviously, you know, but at grassroots and organizations that say it's not about winning, it's about development. I mean, that's now kind of a mantra. But to be honest, I don't think most coaches have any idea what that means.
What is development? I think you can understand performance, you can understand where we are in the league, how we did. You kind of have a general idea if we didn't defend very well or we missed three chances. But when it really comes down, particularly the individual level, what does player development look like? Well, our research, Alf, also with you, most grassroots coaches have no idea what that means. They know the general.
But if you go back to with individual players, let's say the younger group, the individual player is the one that we focus on within the team. How did they develop?
In order to do that, need to be able to visualize what development is. So what we've done a lot of research on is, particularly in the core skills when younger players are developing, what does that look like? So from a young player starting out, let's say in a skill, first touch.
receiving the ball first touch. What does that look like for you know, player just starting out or a six or seven year old? You know, which might be just kick the ball. There's nothing to start with and that's fine. And that's great. They're in the game. They're having fun. That's brilliant. What's the next step? The next step is they actually learn how to receive the ball and not just kick it away and keep it. And then the next step might be
instead of just keeping ball, they move with the ball. So maybe the next step up the ladder in first touch is being clever under pressure because that's how players are developing and there's more pressure in the game. And then as they get older, they learn how to deal with balls from the air. So I think with each of these skills,
you can develop kind of a skill ladder that says, this is how a young player develops in first touch, in passing, in attack, in defense. So there's kind of a development pathway in a simple way that coaches can visualize, you show them, because once they have that, they can go and look at their players. They can observe their players. Now, if you don't know what development looks like, you can't observe.
Temisan Williams
you ⁓
Mike Smith
What are you observing? So I think that's what we've tried to do is look more into educating particularly grassroots coaches that development means this. And so if you can spend some time.
observing that, now you have a conversation to have with your player because you know where he's at and you know where he could get to and your job is to help him go from the next up to the next level. So it's just my experience that when you talk about player development that everybody does, I'm not sure that most coaches really know what that looks like.
Alf Gracombe
Well, this idea of a skill ladder is interesting because it gives a coach a framework for thinking about player development. in a sense, it's a quantitative way of looking at, player here at this stage, you know, tries to control next step, clever under pressure. That's a nice set of, you know, quantifiable results, if you will, that gives a coach more than just the scoreline, let's say at the end of a game to measure.
how well the kids are progressing on the team. So that's the grassroots. But Temisan how do clubs look at this kind of player progression? I would imagine a club like Arsenal has a well-defined player progression structure or framework for their youth academy players
Temisan Williams
Sure.
So firstly, it's great what Mike said already and I don't think I can add much more to that because he really has shaped it very nicely. One thing I would say when he mentioned around the development of winning is so interesting because that's a hot topic at the moment, especially with Nicky Butts recent comment about the fact that if you don't know how to win up to 16, how are you going to expect them to try and win when they get to the first team?
Mike Smith
Yeah,
yeah.
Temisan Williams
which you can see to some degree, of course. Now, if I'm talking about Arsenal, there were four pillars that we always went off of, and that was lifelong learner, champion mentality, most efficient mover, and effective team player. And there were, of course, aspects to those four, but those were the four pillars that we were looking at always observing, if you like to use Mike's words.
And then what was quite interesting when we, when I took coaches in September to Arsenal, we were talking with the pre-academy and they said, these are the seven basic principles that we want the players to understand that under seven, under eight. Do you show for the ball? Do you stay on the ball? Do you share the ball? And then also shooting. Those are the four things. So all the pre-academy coaches knew that, right. Is this player who I'm looking at? Do they really just enjoy shooting? Is that what they're?
key thing is, or does this player just really like to stay on the ball? So those were the things that they were trying to observe. Now, we did used to have a coaching philosophy, if you like, which was built off of the back of, I don't even know, Verhijn, his work Dutch.
and also a few others, where we were trying to help players go from being unconsciously incompetent to being unconsciously competent. So it starts getting very, very technical. After day one, I had to sit down and say, right, you need to explain this to me. So basically where it comes to a point whereby they are taking competent actions.
Alf Gracombe
I like that. I like that.
Temisan Williams
consistently ⁓ without even having to think about it. So it's just second nature. So we really started looking at, in terms of development now, what is the level of the football actions that they are producing at, how many and what quality of them and are they being able to do it consistently over 90 minutes? So that's football fitness, if you like.
Mike Smith
Mm-hmm.
Temisan Williams
So that was something that we also looked at if we're talking about player development. But ultimately, I guess in a nutshell, what we'd be looking at, especially in academies, with the intention that you have, are you able to execute accurately? Because that's what's going to get you to the first team, something that you can do accurately, consistently, which is your super strength. And are we helping you to develop that as well?
Alf Gracombe
Temisan, you said something I'm still kind of going over in my head, as you said, of this idea of being unconsciously competent. And I think this in some ways gets at a very interesting dimension of our conversation today, which is, okay, players understand that they're trying to get better. Coaches understand that they're trying to develop players and improve them. But a lot of player feedback.
is how a coach communicates and helps a player understand to themselves how they are progressing. if you're a youth, a young player, and of course you want to get better as a player, but feedback is really about.
you as a coach helping that player understand how they are getting better and then also, you know, where they need to continue to develop So maybe let's explore this space a little bit. Mike, how do you see this, this idea of being unconsciously competent and that with it
Mike Smith
there.
No, it's
a good idea. If you follow the Coerver Coaching method, you know, which I've done for too many years, a long time, is that was always the core. The core idea behind football is that you play it unconsciously. We know this. You know this. When you're on the field, you're not thinking too much, right? If you're thinking too much, then you'll miss things.
Alf Gracombe
Instinctually, yeah.
Mike Smith
think because things happen too much. So this idea of playing unconsciously with the Coerver method all around, it's around the ball, this ball mastery is that unconscious comfort with the ball. If you have that, you don't have to think too much. And that's embedded. So you do in practice more intentional stuff with the coach. We practice this, we do this, this is what we're trying to do, the purpose. So you're giving them feedback about the why.
in order to practice, practice, practice, because you want to cross the bridge into the game where it has to be unconscious, except a few tactical things where you have time to look. But I think that from the feedback perspective and development, I think you want times where you want players to think intentionally, this is what we're working on, or this is how you could refine that skill.
And it's very precise, right? This is how you could do it. It's a bit of feedback that helps a player think about it, repeat it, practice it, and make it unconscious. That's what it means to me. the feedback part is so important for development because it gives a player those little cues of whether they work on them or not at grassroots, that's up to the player. It's not up to the coach. But it's feeding the information about how you could do this, how you could do this.
And then you have to practice, practice, practice. And that was my take on the kind of the unconscious thing. But you hear it a lot more these days, you know, that if you give too much feedback, players think too much. It's the big problem of coaches on the sideline. The problem is then players are listening to the coach on the sideline. And that becomes a conscious game, not an unconscious game. So that kind of feedback can disrupt that.
Temisan Williams
Mmm.
you
Mike Smith
that kind of space when you're playing, which you just play, you go for it. You review it later, you know, and we break it down. So I think there is that specific feedback which is very useful to young players, but you have to separate that to what's happening on the field when they're on the field.
of that.
Temisan Williams
I couldn't
agree with you more. And I think as I have progressed as a coach, I've spoken less and less. ⁓ That's been something that I've had to consciously do. Yeah. Yeah, so that's definitely something that I think...
Mike Smith
Yeah.
You'll to fight yourself on the sidelines.
Alf Gracombe
Show me a coach who hasn't had to consciously try and do that.
Temisan Williams
helps the feedback process because I think as coaches, and it goes right back to the beginning, as you mentioned Mike, about observing and noticing, the quality of what you notice is going to impact your, of course, your feedback on and off the pitch.
Mike Smith
Yeah. And it's a tough one for coaches like game day. Game day is game day, right? And for me, if possible, you step objectively, you step back a little bit and you make your mental notes about what we're doing well, what we're not. You might have a half time talk. Emotionally, it's hard to not be there, you know, every kick of the game. But this idea of just...
Being Being able to step back at game day and observe, that's a very new idea to most coaches. That is not the definition of being a game day coach. The definition is we're here to win, I'm here to help the team as much as possible, and ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba, you know, verbal cues all the time. But to me that's one of the most damaging parts of the idea of feedback is that it carries over to the live part of the game.
Temisan Williams
Mm.
Mike Smith
rather than being observation, then at half time, you you've got your little things you can say. But it's very difficult with this kind of, you know, the winning mentality idea. then what Temisan maybe you can, you know, talk about the pro game and maybe it's different, but most pro coaches from the sidelines, not all of them, I mean, they're constant, you know, bam, bam, bam, they're...
their arms around and you know shouting this and this and this and this you know most most grassroots coaches don't realize most of that's just a show you know for the cameras
Temisan Williams
It
really is. That's why you've got to be really careful looking at first team because one, the players aren't hearing what you're saying. If you're the right back and the manager is by the left back, the right back is not going to hear if you're in a 60,000 seater stadium. The message just isn't going to get across. all of it is, I think there's a bit of emotional control that needs to be done there for some managers, but...
Mike Smith
Yeah.
Temisan Williams
But what people see it first thing, they start bringing it down and that's what happens. That can happen in youth football as well. That has changed though, gradually within youth football. Yeah, you are seeing it in academies definitely that that is changing. But there are places where it still happens to help encourage, I guess, encourage players, what coaches would say. But again, how much?
I think how much do you do of that?
Mike Smith
Yeah, it's
a balance. yeah. You don't want to switch off emotionally, you know, as a coach in a game because it's an emotional time. mean, that's the whole point, you know, but yeah, I was reading some stuff, Temisan about I saw a video of a coach in one of the pro academies in England. And so the kids, you know, they're playing and they're obviously working on something.
Temisan Williams
Yeah.
Hmm.
Mike Smith
But the feedback, if you like, as in the verbal words of the coach, which essentially is feedback, is just nonstop. It's like a commentary, right? But including, I don't know how you feel about this, it's like, good, good, good, good, good. You know, and I'm thinking, so from a player perspective, you're kind of now focusing on, did I do it good, you know? And playing well is when the coach tells you you're playing well.
Temisan Williams
I-I-I-I- ⁓
Mike Smith
which is not unconsciously playing the game. But coaches are trying to be positive. So what's the difference between being positive with your feedback and players not needing that reinforcement in order to do something?
Temisan Williams
Yeah.
I really like what you said there, Mike. And I had a conversation with a coach educator earlier this year, which is very interesting. said, let's take Ronaldinho. Ronaldinho does a flip-flap once and beats a player. Does it twice? Does it four times? Does it 10 times and beats a player? Is that now still good or is that now just the baseline for Ronaldinho? So should we continue to say good?
when actually he's done it several times and it's now just the baseline. And I think that's something that we can get tripped up on at times whereby the ceiling now continues to, especially in academies, continues to be raised. Now the minimum expectation is now higher. So it's no longer good, it's just a minimum. It's what's to be expected. My thing also with...
Mike Smith
done.
Yeah.
That's interesting. ⁓
Temisan Williams
the good and the well done is there's never the "for" afterwards. F-O-R. is never well done or ready. Well done for or good for. And so you end up saying, well done, good, well done, good, well done, good. And the players have no context to that. So for me, it's a case of, right, we really need to just observe. ⁓ for me, I always tell coaches, take the first three minutes and even tell the players.
Mike Smith
Yes, it's just well done.
Yeah, what would mean?
Temisan Williams
I am not going to say anything in the first three minutes. I'm just going to observe you continue on. you feel you need any help or there's something that needs to be changed in the practice, let me know, but I'm not going to say anything for the first three minutes. And then let's go from there. But at least it gives you time as a coach to know, I'm not going to say anything. The players know, coach isn't going to say anything. We can both breathe. Let's take our time.
Mike Smith
Yeah.
Yeah, that's a point.
Alf Gracombe
This is this conversation is incredible and ⁓ I barely feel like I even need to be here for it but there's a couple things as you guys are talking that are really catching my ear and I want to just peel back another layer to on each of them and You both touched on this in different ways, but first kind of the time and place for feedback ⁓
Temisan Williams
Sorry.
You
Mike Smith
Mm.
Alf Gracombe
a game of football, whether it's on training or an actual match day, it is an information rich environment, right? The kids are experiencing it. The game is always in motion. Coaches are experiencing it, watching it from different angles, not seeing it through the eyes of the players, of course. But talk about that a little bit. Temisan, the time and place for feedback.
when should it happen or what are some very kind of like specific ways that coaches should think about when and where they deliver that feedback and how.
Temisan Williams
Hmm.
The first thing I'd say is silence is also feedback. ⁓ The reason why I say that is because, and I learnt it from Albert Capellas when he was in Barcelona's academy and he was coaching Messi, Iniesta and Xavi and he was told, your job is to not make them worse. And so...
Mike Smith
Yeah, I like that.
Yes.
Alf Gracombe
It's nice if you have players
Temisan Williams
⁓ Yeah.
Alf Gracombe
like that, but yeah.
Temisan Williams
So what he was saying is that coaching in silence is also just as powerful as giving actual word feedback, etc. there's that. Then for me, think obviously context is different between game day and training. For me in training, I think we've got to be really careful.
how we stop practices, pause practices and address the group. Because I still think at times it's pausing the practice and just focusing on one player, two players, where that's not necessary. So for me, that's really important. But then if we're talking about individualistic, I think it's always great to be able to...
come alongside the player. there may be times I step into practice and maybe go alongside the centre-back and let's walk and talk as the practice is going on. Sometimes I find if you take a player out, it's very challenging because they're still focused on the ball, they're still looking at the ball, so the message may not deliver as much as you think you'd like it to. And I would always say short and sharp and snappy. ⁓
Mike Smith
Thank
Alf Gracombe
Mm-hmm.
Temisan Williams
especially
when we're in training and even game day, emotions are high and Mike's talked about it. You have that passion for the game and obviously in training as well, it's competitive. So just don't overload. If it's just one thing, just leave it at one thing and let them focus on that part. But yeah, that's what I would say initially.
Mike Smith
Yeah, I think it's a challenging one, particularly, I think, for grassroots coaches who don't have as many resources as the pro game. And we talk to coaches about, we need to give more personal feedback. And once they understand what that means, the next question is, well, when the heck am I going to do that?
Alf Gracombe
You agree with that Mike?
Mike Smith
You know, because I'm busy enough just getting to the practice, getting things set up. I've got four drills I want to do and then we're going to play and whatever. when do I do that? Game time's too crazy. So, you know, some coaches have...
occasionally the mid-season meeting with parents and everything and give a bit of feedback. But think a lot of coaches find it hard to figure out the timing. I think my point of view is you have to find some time.
is because during the drills and games, particularly in the beginning of practice, where you really want to be involved in it, you're doing ball mastery, you're doing the core skill you're working on, combinations or whatever, it's very difficult to give individual. I like the idea of Temisan there is time, particularly in more gameplay thing, to be side to a player and then just give them a little tip. And I think that's good.
Temisan Williams
Hmm.
Mike Smith
But I think what my advice is, every training session for the grassroots should always end with 20 minutes of free play. Some coaches seem to say, you've got to coach every, you only have an hour, so I've got to coach every second of that, to be a coach. That's the point that silence and observation is coaching.
Temisan Williams
Hmm.
.
Mike Smith
And so I think it's that last 20 minutes where you want players to play on their own. You don't want a lot of coach comment on that. And I think that's one is it's a time to observe, know, make your notes, or it's a time when I was coaching a team was that's a time where I do pull a player out, you know, just for two, three minutes, you know, because it's okay. The others are playing. It's not pulling out from a drill or a game where they keep
Temisan Williams
Hmm,
yeah.
Mike Smith
And that's
where had a little conversation because I've observed something during the game. I want to talk about that to your point is because I don't need to be coaching in that. I don't need to be coaching the last 20 minutes of practice, but I need to be coaching. And to me, that means the possibility of conversation time. So that's one way to do it is pull them out. Don't you think about keep it short and whatever interaction you do, keep it...
short and to the point, you know, and don't give players 20 things to think about. Just one thing on one topic. So if I pull the player out, my kind of mantra is, is start with what's up, you know? So he goes, what's up? Well done, what's next? That's my three things. Always start with a question. You always start with...
It could be something from the game. It could be they missed a penalty. It could be, I'm not going to push it, but that kind of time where you're available to a player and he might have something on his mind, you know, or you might ask him afterwards a question. But the next thing is we've been working on this skill. What I'm seeing is, the well done. I think with the younger kids, you lead with a well done. You know, it's all that, you never lead with a mistake. You always lead with well done.
on this skill really good. So come on now, what's next then? You've mastered that one. What's next in the game? know, it could be, it controls the ball okay, but under pressure always controls and gets tackled. Okay, now let's talk about moving with the ball, clever under pressure. You know what that means? Yes, no, let's demo it. Two, three minutes, you know, and you give one thing for them perhaps to take home.
where, yeah, I got to practice that a bit more. So I think there is time during training to develop more of observation and individual conversation. And, or if you have an assistant coach, maybe they can do it while you're coaching. But I do think it's really important to get down to the individual player and those little conversations. I think they make all the difference, all the difference.
and it doesn't have to be a lot, but more than just the information, it's the coach talked to me today. The coach made me feel good. That's what you're trying to do. And he gave me an idea. But the coach, he saw what I did in the game, ⁓ which is really cool. But there is a challenge in grassroots of where do you carve out the space to do that? I would admit that straight up.
Alf Gracombe
You, both touched on, you know, you can be a coach out there and, and, know, this idea of being positive, we all agree. That's a good thing, especially at the younger ages. ⁓ but more than just, Hey, good job, good job, good job. And Mike, you're talking here about the specificity of that feedback to a player, right? It's really zooming in one skill, you know, even zooming in on one moment or a few moments in the game.
But Temisan, if you can talk a little bit about the importance of how that feedback is shaped and how specific it is and why that matters to a player.
Temisan Williams
You
I
It's really important to help players to be able to know exactly what they need to do for their own development and with the specificity element as we already alluded to, just giving one thing really helps them to laser focus and
I can't stress that enough because I've seen it across younger ages and older ages. They just want one specific information, one or two specific pieces of information. One of the things that I found actually, which was really helpful and I've only done it once in my time in Academy coaching, was when I was at Fulham. I took out iPad and I was just on the side and I was recording and I said, right, this is we did for one minute, two minutes. I just want to show you quick.
clip of what we've just done, players can have a look, oh, I didn't realise I did it, oh, I didn't realise I it. And then it just, it showed that I didn't even need to say anything because it was more powerful them seeing their actions and then self-correcting. And of course that would then help frame the feedback. And so I do think that could be utilised a little bit better as well. But yeah, I think we've got to help players to think, have to think about...
Alf Gracombe
Hmm.
Temisan Williams
fewer things in their their mind as they're actually playing and going through the game. Yeah, that's it. That's what I'll leave it.
Alf Gracombe
Mm-hmm.
Mike Smith
think what we said about the, you know, now the use of video filming becomes bigger and bigger even in the grassroots game, right? A lot of the fields they're building, you can just plug in your iPhone and then, you know, it transfers over to one of the video platforms. And most of it's used more for entertainment, you know, here are the clips from the game. It's a motivational thing, kids like to see it.
Temisan Williams
Yeah, yeah, Yeah.
Mike Smith
And the question is, can you use that? And I think you can, because players can kind of see an outside view. It's very hard to see everything when you're in the middle of it. So I think the video can be useful. think the video analytic part, which comes from the pro game, which then divides that into 20 different data points, how much we ran, how many parts we made.
Temisan Williams
100.
Mike Smith
whatever, know, the kids eyes are glazing over here. But I don't think that so there's a difference between video for learning and video tracking. And I think the last thing you want to be doing for you, particularly younger players is making them feel like they're tracked, that everything is being watched and analyzed.
Temisan Williams
Okay.
Mike Smith
If you want to play to stop thinking too much, then that's a pretty good mechanism to do it. So I think we have to be very careful of bringing in the pro tech down into the younger age groups. It's not that you can't do it in a positive way, which you can, but you really have to think about what you're doing. And I like the idea of, know, say, well, you show them, they have their own...
Temisan Williams
.
Mike Smith
They're thinking, they can see it. You don't need to over point it out. But I think a lot of coaches now start to use that video analysis of what my team is doing wrong. And now I need to analyze and tell them and give them the feedback of what we're not doing, which I think is really dangerous for the younger age groups particularly.
Temisan Williams
I agree and I guess it's a bit of a side point. There are now more coach analyst roles in, especially in the Premier League academies. I'm now seeing under 10s. They've got specific and it's full time roles. And one of the things I, with the advent of football coaching degrees and I was having a conversation with a Premier League head of coaching.
Mike Smith
and
Temisan Williams
this week and I said to him, I do, even though it's positive seeing more coaches come into the game through university, I think the challenge now is that because they are doing a degree where it's so theoretical, this is where we're now also potentially seeing that analytical way of approaching coaching very early on instead of saying, I just want to coach to help improve the players.
It's more I'm coaching because I would like to see how my game model comes to fruition.
Mike Smith
Yes, yeah,
yeah, yeah, no, I think you're right. You're right on there. It's a fine line. And I think if it's driven by analytical tech people who don't know the game, that's the problem. That's the... It has to be in the hands of the coach. The most important relationship is the relationship between the coach and the player. Tech can help that a little bit.
but it can't replace the individual interaction between coach and player. I don't think, you know, and it shouldn't, particularly with younger players.
Temisan Williams
Mm.
Alf Gracombe
Yeah, it is an interesting trend and you see more and more.
of that work of coaching or analyzing players happening behind the screen rather than out on the grass. And so I think anyone working in the youth game should be, I think, wary of just how tech is getting deployed across the game. And of course, it's going to be different at grassroots or in academies. But I think this is a really important thing for us all to think about as coaches is the role of tech and kind of the data piece as it's used in the youth game.
Temisan Williams
Yeah. ⁓
Alf Gracombe
And I think just on that topic and maybe to widen the lens just beyond tech, but again, like your role as a coach, it is an information rich environment. And honestly, the tech is making it even more information rich, right? You can, these camera platforms will tell you how many passes your team completed, what your possession percentage was and.
think first of all, you should probably always be a little bit skeptical of even if that data is accurate, but let's just say it is. How is that data useful to players? You know, you're not Manchester City and Pep Guardiola taking this and then, you know, trying to figure out what you can learn from this game to win the next weekend. That's not really your job as a coach. Like you need to distill that information down to something that's useful and practical for a young player.
And so, how do we think about, mean, do you guys agree with that as a coach? Like, again, you, you're going to see there's video available to you as a grassroots coach, even there's, you know, more, more analytics. So, but what advice do you have for coaches about, well, take what's important and kind of distill it down for players.
So that it's useful for them. What are some practical things that coaches can do as they think about? Let's just say coaching their their grassroots team over a 10-week season or or in the Academy environment It's it's it's a it's a different. I think it's a version of the same challenge You're still dealing with kids and how much information they can take take in at once and what's useful for them?
Mike Smith
you talked about a little bit before, but where is the balance? How does it affect the relationship, the direct relationship of coach to player? And is that important or not? Or is it becoming less important?
Temisan Williams
Mm.
Yeah, good,
Good question. So at the younger age groups, definitely it's more a case of if the players want to see anything and usually the way they produce the clips would be highlights of, you know, great moments. So be like a match of the day, Sky Sports News. Oh, here you are. This is what's the best bits. And that's as far as it really goes.
Mike Smith
Yeah.
Yeah.
Temisan Williams
because they don't want the players, as you mentioned, they just don't want them to really start focusing on statistics from age eight and nine. As they get to under 12, maybe even a little bit before then, they would have dedicated performance analysis sessions every single week. So it would be okay. This is what we're working on starting out from the, starting out the attack and...
This is an example of us doing it against this team, this team, this team. This is where we had the challenges with it. So that's on a team basis. And I've seen it work in the sense of trends. So for example, when I was at Fulham, there was a trend from under 18s downwards that we conceded a lot of goals from defensive restarts. So when we were defending free kicks, when we were defending corners, et cetera. So.
That was then integrated into our training from a team perspective. When it comes down to individuals, from under 11, you know, at Fulham, they could clip anything on using Hudl. We would clip some things, but it'd be in relation to their, what's called IDP, so Individual Development Plan, but that was dictated by the player. So the player would say, okay, over these next 12 weeks, these are the two things.
that I would like to work on and then we would have clips in relation to that or the player would and the player could have their own clips in relation to that. So that's how it has been utilised. Now when we come to the specifics around possessions, stats, etc. players aren't really going to remember that. That's just a reality. They're not going to remember all those statistics and nor should they need to remember any of that.
Mike Smith
Yeah.
Temisan Williams
One of the things that I will say that I think should be a common thread throughout is to show players their super strengths in action in the game, that is what ultimately in professional academies, if they want to get the first team, their super strength is what's going to take them into the first team. So help them to really understand how brilliant it is, how they're using it, how it's growing. I think that should be a mainstay through throughout personally.
Mike Smith
Yeah. Yeah.
and the exceptional.
Alf Gracombe
Temisan you mentioned something that just caught my ear, this idea of of like player agency in this process. Like you were saying players will actually say what they want to be focused on ⁓ in their development. Yeah. Why is that important?
Temisan Williams
Yeah.
Yes.
Well, it's about them, ultimately. It's about them and I could leave the club six months later, you know, as a coach. I can maybe say something as a coach to start the season, six months later I'm gone, the player's still there, but that's something that I've seen. Then another coach comes in and says, no, I think you should work on this potentially. And then it's now, the goal posts are now changing.
⁓ depending on the coach. Whereas if it's the player, it gives them that agency. And as we also know, for them to ultimately get to the first team as well, there has to be that level of self-motivation and self-reflection to be able to progress to that level. So I think it helps along that journey for them to be able to...
to do that.
Alf Gracombe
Yeah, there's a certain intrinsic motivation just from focusing on the things that you feel as a player are important.
Mike Smith
Mm-hmm.
Temisan Williams
Exactly. I
always remember someone telling me about Ronaldo when he'd they were watching, he was doing a session at Real Madrid. And even though they had their team session, he, for example, would say to himself, these next 20 minutes, I'm going to focus on finishing from 20 yards, irrespective of what they were working on the session. That's what he did. Right. The next 20 minutes, I'm to be working on beating two players to then go and score. So
Mike Smith
You're the best.
Yeah.
Temisan Williams
You know, you see how it then can obviously, know Ronaldo the way he's done, but it can then go to that level in terms of self motivation and focus, you know, that standard.
Mike Smith
Yeah, but I think it's a general point of the agency, know, ultimately the game is the players' game. It's a particular game day, their day, you know, and the coaches have tried to figure out what's my role in this. And I always say to, you know, to
Temisan Williams
Yeah.
Mike Smith
to when for the younger age group to coaches, you know, in the eyes of a player, particularly young players, you're 10 foot tall, you know, you're super coach.
You know, you are players look up to their coaches. But and I said, but it means you're going to have to spend a lot of time on one knee because you've got to you've got to come down. You coach with the kids. You don't coach from here. You know, you don't coach from way up here. You have a view maybe of the game or whatever. But you have to coach with the kids because it's their game. You know that that's the whole point is, you know, you're trying that that role of the coach.
Temisan Williams
Hmm.
Mike Smith
It's kind like you said, and I think it's really good of players having their agency because you're trying to help players discover who they are.
That's the job of the coach, right? It's you, know, how are going to help you discover who you are? I like the super, you your big skill, who they are, what can you have confidence in, you know, how can you build your courage just to go for it, those kind of things. But ultimately, you know, on the field, it's the players that are going to do it. It's not the coach telling them to do it.
Temisan Williams
And one of the things I will allude to as well, and I completely appreciate it's a lot harder at grassroots level, is that you do have to take into consideration your feedback in relation to the players who this player is playing with. Because ultimately, the environment that they play in is going to influence mostly
what they're able to do. for example, if they are trying to work on, if they want to work on 40 yard passes, but they're in a team where few players really understand when they take the ball out of their feet and look for that and they're going to go, then it's very difficult in terms of the feedback that you're going to give to them because they may see it, they want to do it, they maybe have the capability to do it, but maybe the team that they're playing with aren't capable for what they can see.
Mike Smith
Thank
Yeah.
Temisan Williams
So I think it's also important to recognise that as well and to take it into consideration, which is probably why within academies, what you do see is players who, of course, you know, stand out in their group, they go on to the next group a lot earlier to really try to stretch that because it may be coming a bit too easy for them and they don't want them to pick up bad habits or that type of stuff that they talk about.
Mike Smith
Yeah, I think in grassroots, you you always have the two or three players who stand out, you know, and I think that's where feedback can help because you can give them those extra challenges in games. You know, you talk about this, but I want to see this. Come on, you know, I want to see you able to do this. know, is that's that's the next try to do this in the game, you know, but finding that extra challenge.
Temisan Williams
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Mike Smith
is at least if you know there is another level of challenge and try as a coach to understand what that is for an individual player. Because you want them to develop as well. You want every player to develop.
Temisan Williams
Yeah.
Alf Gracombe
Well, gentlemen, this has been just a really excellent conversation and I'm really grateful to the two of you. Before you go, I'm going to just kind of ask one more question to both of you. Delivering feedback to players and observing players and just how do you fine tune that information that you deliver to players? Mike, you talked about the role of the coach.
And, uh, this is not easy. Um, in some ways, less is more sometimes as we, as we touched on in the conversation. So I always like to end conversations on something practical for coaches and how to, and I think the question I'll ask the two of you is, the role of the coach and how feedback can shape how you think of your role as a coach and your journey.
As a coach, know, you know, if you, if I had this conversation with you guys 15 years ago, when I was starting out on my own grassroots coaching journey, it would probably sound very different than it does today. So Mike, I'll over to you first, just for the coaches out there, how should they be thinking about their role?
Mike Smith
Yeah, how
do you think about it? Well, I think you have to again start off by thinking what is it that I want to help each of my players be? Have something in mind and the more you can focus that for different players the better, you know.
if that's too complex, then two or three things that you really want to see. So think you have to have a very clear goal of a target and it's got nothing to do with kind of tactics and the team and winning the games, but on an individual player, where do you want Alf to be at the end of the season? Because I want to help Alf be more. That can mean different things with different players.
But so I think is first is just having that, you know, and then just the feedback you give, just keep it on, keep it simple on those kinds of themes, just simple ideas, because you can't change everything. A lot of coaches want to change everything straight away. ⁓ We lost three nothing because we're not doing this and we've got to do more of this and we've got to do more of this. I think it's with an individual player is the same thing.
Alf Gracombe
Yeah.
Mike Smith
But think it's more, then you've got to be patient. I think you've got to understand. Maybe it's, you'll be interested to see Temisan's take on this. But for most players, development is not a straight line.
You know, the development of a team is not a straight line. It can be really frustrating. We got to here, now we're back to here. So, you know, it's kind of upwards and onwards, and then sometimes it's sideways, you know? And having the patience to deal with sideways, because that's how kids develop, you know?
Alf Gracombe
you
Mike Smith
that it's not just one line and it can't be just boom, boom, boom, now we're gonna go to the next, now we're gonna go to the next. Because that can just lead to now we're not getting there, that goes back to we're not here and that's negative. It's always gotta be, I think, shaped in the positive and patience is a big part of that and it's okay to go sideways for a while and then step back.
⁓ But anyway, to me, you want to develop confidence with your kids and develop courage. And confidence and courage, that's fearless kids. And we want fearless kids having great fun on the field. That would be my last thought.
Alf Gracombe
Love it, love it, Temisan.
Temisan Williams
can only add one thing here. Mike is really, really gone for gold, which is great. Mine would be, just ask the player how do you want to receive feedback from me.
because I and I'll go to I'll go to another story because I think that they really will help to put this into picture. There was a player who I had under 15 and we had a talk outside the changing room and I said, you know, do you want me to be to be honest with you? And he said, yeah, he was he was playing he was playing right back. ⁓ So he's playing center midfield. He wanted to.
continuous position in center midfield and I said to him look we've got so many central midfield players and you're probably not the best of them all consider right back I think you'll be really good at right back with the qualities that you have but the choice is yours. He had to think about it came back after the game said do not I'm gonna I'm gonna try it and then three years later he made his debut for the first team
And I'm not saying that happened to all players, but I say that because the question that I started off with, how do you want to receive the feedback? And that will help you to know what you're going to share with the player. But ultimately, you want them to love the game and you want them to look back on 10 years when, who knows, they may look at that conversation and say, you know what? I appreciate it. No matter what happened, I appreciated how.
that coach shared that message with me.
Mike Smith
Yeah.
Yeah, very good, very good.
Alf Gracombe
Yeah, you guys
both bring incredible perspective and just years of experience coaching. And I feel my job is to somehow try and distill that into some pithy and clear summary at the end of this, but I'll do my best to just hit a couple things very quickly. Temisan, and I think what you said about player agency is so important. Players
having a role in thinking about and managing their own development. And then the other piece just about having that conversation and being honest and being upfront and even asking players.
how it is that they want to receive feedback or how best they receive feedback. Now, a seven-year-old might not be able to answer that question, but a 15-year-old can certainly reflect on it. But I would say, just to return to the question, is one of your roles as a coach is to understand how your players want to receive feedback and how it's most effective for you to deliver it. And then the last thing is...
this role of observation and reflection as a coach and.
Mike Smith
it
Alf Gracombe
⁓ you know, we're not trying to, especially as a youth coach for the younger ages, right? Your job is not to boil the ocean and talk about every issue happening on the field and have a solution for every issue. It's really, do try to get down to just a few things, at least in each conversation you have, keep it short, keep it specific, focus on one or two skills at the most, and then move on and let the kids get back to the game. ⁓
So I hope my summary, at least I hit on a couple of the key points, ⁓ you guys are incredible. I am so grateful for just even getting to have this conversation with you both. And ⁓ yeah, great.
Mike Smith
We will. Anything after
Temisan Williams
Pulum is fun.
It's been great.
Mike Smith
Thanks, Al. Great fun. Yeah.
Temisan Williams
Yeah, brilliant
as always Alf.
Mike Smith
Temisan thanks for that. Really good. Really enjoyed it.
Temisan Williams
Thank you Mark, I think
we could have gone for at least another hour. Yeah.
Mike Smith
Yeah, I know. It simple though. We'll do it another time. Anyway, great conversation.
Alf Gracombe
⁓ I know we could have. I know we could have.
Mike Smith
Thanks, Alf
Alf Gracombe
Alright gentlemen, thank you so much. Appreciate it. Cheers.
Temisan Williams
Cheers.
Mike Smith
All right, cheers. Bye bye.
Alf Gracombe
A huge thanks to Temisan Williams and Mike Smith for joining me today. It's always a pleasure to have both of them on the show and I just loved how this conversation came together. We covered a lot of ground on the topic of player feedback. Temison started us off with an important reminder that cultural background and individual personality shape how players receive feedback and that coaches need to be aware of their own biases. We talked about the difference between coaching the team
and coaching the individual and why that distinction matters so much at the youth level. Mike spoke about observation as a form of coaching and how stepping back and watching can be just as powerful as verbal instruction. Temisan mentioned the phrase "coaching in the silence" which I just love. We discussed keeping feedback short, specific and focused on one thing at a time rather than overwhelming players with a lot of information at once.
And both guests emphasize the importance of recognizing that development isn't a straight line and that ultimately helping kids build confidence and a love for the game is what matters. Two fantastically experienced and insightful coaches offering great advice for coaches at all levels. Temisan does incredible work in supporting coaches on their journey to Academy coaching in the UK through his Coach Accelerator Masterclass. Definitely check that.
out by finding him on LinkedIn. And Mike is a longtime leader at Coerver Coaching and more recently has been working with me on a new startup, CoachFives, a tool to support coaches and helping them provide more impactful feedback to their players. That was the topic of our episode today. You can check out CoachFives at CoachFives.com. So again, thanks to Mike and Temisan for a great conversation and thanks to you all for listening. See you next time.
